Thursday, April 23, 2009

CIA: Between Barack and a Hard Place

No, that is not Dick Cheney in the background as Barack Obama schmoozes with CIA employees, right. Joe Clancy's the name. Head of Obama's presidential security.

I cannnot resist any longer. RE: Obama and CIA terrorist interrogation tactics commonly branded torture these days.

These techniques are effective. Let me repeat. These techniques work. The perps sing like Placido Domingo. Eventually.

The NYT has a piece today on the hot-off-the-press freshly declassified congressional report on these interrogation tactics approved at the "highest level" of the Bush administration.

Obama may be sorry he blew the lid off Pandora's box by huffing and puffing about what would amount to Bush congressional show trials.

If I could tap into the long-dead spirit of former Beirut CIA Station Chief William Buckley he'd confirm the above. Buckley was kidnapped and executed by Hezbollah terrorists in Lebanon. He blabbed all under torture. This was on Ronald Reagan's watch. Venerable spymaster and ex-OSS William Casey was DCI.

The terrorists made videotapes of Buckley's torture. Those at Langley who saw the horrific torture tapes were reported to have cried; CIA brass were freaked out about what Buckley had revealed.

As then-Associated Press Bureau Chief Terry Anderson, who would himself be taken hostage a year later, wrote in Den of Lions, his memoir of captivity: the Hezbollah operation against Buckley was almost a model of counterespionage. Buckley had developed a woman Shiite agent named Zeynoub, sister of the woman involved in the assassination of American University President Kerr. Unknown to him, she was a double, a “responsible,” or official in Hezbollah, whose true loyalty was with the fundamentalist party. According to one usually reliable source, Buckley grew enamored of the woman and began an affair with her. Later, however, the professional CIA man began to grow suspicious. Before he decided to act on those suspicions, the woman became aware of them. With the information she now had, and access to his apartment, the kidnapping was easy. The decision to take him was made on Friday, March 15, 1984. On March 16, in an operation involving twelve cars full of Hezbollah agents, he was snatched. Buckley was tortured repeatedly and severely for the next ten months, under the supervision of Imad Mugniyeh, one of Hezbollah’s senior officials, and a Lebanese doctor. He resisted bravely, refusing to give any information, but as was inevitable eventually broke.

Barack Obama is Jimmy Carter all over again. But for different reasons. President Carter's righteous morality came from his religious background. Obama's lofty and muddied moral and legal pronouncements on interrogation torture are rooted in liberal naïveté.

Permit me to reiterate my observations of 30 years ago under President Carter: There is no morality in foreign policy.

I hear you thinking, well, how the fuck does she know? I was a graduate student studying U.S. foreign policy at the American University School of International Studies in Washington, DC. My professor was the former CIA station chief in Pakistan. Another professor was Nicholas Daniloff. Remember him? Six years after I got my master's degree the respected journalist was kidnapped in Moscow by the KGB (now FSB).

Here's the transcript of Obama's pedestrian pie-in-the-sky speech to CIA employees at Langley April 20th: "I have put an end to the interrogation techniques described in those OLC memos. And I want to — I want to be very clear and very blunt. I’ve done so for a simple reason: because I believe that our nation is stronger and more secure when we deploy the full measure of both our power and the power of our values, including the rule of law. I know I can count on you to do exactly that. You know, there have been some conversations that I’ve had with senior folks here at Langley in which I think people have expressed understandable anxiety and concern. So I — I — I want to make a point that I just made in the smaller group. I understand that it’s hard when you are asked to protect the American people against people who have no scruples and would willingly and gladly kill innocents. Al-Qaeda’s not constrained by a constitution. Many of our adversaries are not constrained by a belief in freedom of speech or representation in court or rule of law. So I’m sure that sometimes it seems as if that means we’re operating with one hand tied behind our back or that those who would argue for a higher standard are naive. I understand that. You know, I’ve — I watch the cable shows once in a while. What makes the United States special, and what makes you special, is precisely the fact that we are willing to uphold our values and ideals even when it’s hard — not just when it’s easy; even when we are afraid and under threat — not just when it’s expedient to do so. That’s what makes us different. So yes, you’ve got a harder job. And so do I. And that’s okay, because that’s why we can take such extraordinary pride in being Americans. And over the long term, that is why I believe we will defeat our enemies: because we’re on the better side of history.

Politico: President Barack Obama’s attempt to project legal and moral clarity on coercive CIA interrogation methods has instead done the opposite — creating confusion and political vulnerability over an issue that has inflamed both the left and right. In the most recent instance, Director of National Intelligence Dennis Blair acknowledged in a memo to the intelligence community that Bush-era interrogation practices yielded had "high-value information,” then omitted that admission from a public version of his assessment. That leaves a top Obama administration official appearing to validate claims by former Vice President Dick Cheney that waterboarding and other techniques the White House regards as torture were effective in preventing terrorist attacks. And the press release created the impression the administration was trying to suppress this conclusion. The president, who has said he wants to focus on the future rather than litigate the past, also opened himself to distraction and attack by retracting the earlier assurance by top officials that they had no plans to prosecute lawyers for former President George W. Bush who approved the “enhanced interrogation” program.

Obama's newly discovered moral compass points to future tragic consequences.

CIA interrogator: "Mohammed, can I interest you in a cup of tea, 40 virgins, and perhaps then you'll tell me the truth?"
Mohammed: "Are you homosexual? We don't have homosexuals like in your country."
CIA Interrogator: "Please, Mohammed, tell me something, anything, I'm begging you or I'll lose my job."
Mohammed: "Islam is ready to rule the world! Touch me and I report you to Barack Hussein Obama."

Related: "William Buckley: The Spy Who Never Came In From The Cold" PBS Frontline: "Terrorist Attacks On Americans, 1979-1998: the Attacks, the Groups, and the U.S. Response"Cryptome: Photos of Obama's Security At CIA Speech April 20, 2009

31 comments:

  1. Marty

    They are planning Show Trials? To deflect and distract from a failing economy and rising unemployment, it won't work. This is the best they can come up with? This present administration really is- the gang that couldn't shoot straight.

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  2. A riveting analysis. Kudo's.

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  3. Marty...excellent post!! One for the archives.

    IF we didn't use these harsh techniques, AND Los Angles was bombed because we didn't get the info, these same leftist would have been screaming for heads to role because we DIDN'T use these harsh techniques.

    It is only a matter of time before the next attack on our nation...and that will be the end of the Obama administration.

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  4. While this is a informative post, Marty, I have to respectfully disagree with you. I don't believe President Obama is naive at all. I think first and foremost, he's a politician. I mean this is a guy who took on the Clinton political brand, put the smackdown on the female side of it, basically told all of her female voters to STFU, put the pimp hand down, and got their votes anyways.

    While this country may not use waterboarding or other "torture" tactics that are being trumpted on cable, blogs, etc., believe me, information is being extracted from suspected terrorists even as I type this. President Obama is a guy you wouldn't want to play poker with.

    As far as "show trials", I believe if the legal buck leads to these chickenhawks in the Bush administration, then there the buck should stop. To throw real American soldiers under the bus for following orders is repugnant and disgraceful.

    And let me end by saying this: Some of you posters don't have to agree with Marty on everyhing she says, just because she's HAWT! She is, we know this, but it's OK to disagree with her. I mean look at Buckley, look how he fell off. Fall for a hot double agent, that's all she wrote! Women KNOW how to get guys every time, don't you Marty? LOL! :-)

    Still got love for ya Booms!

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  5. Excuse me but was it not the US Congress who got wet pants running "hearings" into how President Bush did nothing to prevent 9-11? It always amazes me how some folks can't buy a break. Shit hits the fan and it is your fault for doing nothing. Use enhanced interviewing to prevent further attacks and you are as good as the terrorist you are questioning. I would just imagine if Barack were the boss on Dec 8th 1941, he would be apologizing to the Japanese that all of our fleet at Pearl Harbor were in the way of their bombs. We need a return of that Greatest Generation.

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  6. Love the post.

    I swear.. part of me keeps wondering if I'm really hearing and reading what I'm hearing and reading.

    I don't necessarily agree with torture, but aggressive interrogation techniques (now there's a pc term for ya!) I'm not opposed to. From what little I understand, these techniques were not torture. They're more psychological than physical pain, are they not? And? They worked.

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  7. Chiller,

    We don't go with Marty because she a hottie, thank you. If you read the posting it was quite well presented and documented. More than the current press seems able to do. If the press were doing it's job instead of haning on BArack's leg, there might be more dialog about what measures are really necessary to KEEP US SAFE. The real issue is BO's lack of the body parts to do any serious teabagging.

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  8. No matter what your views, Chaney is correct, they kept our asses safe for the past 7 years. These are not altar boys we are getting information from. I'm not sure of any war where some eggs were not broken. War sucks but it is what it is. How long until the PC crowd gets another building full of Americans tumbled? The we can do more hearings.......

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  9. Bobcat,
    We would've been safe September 11, 2001 had security briefings been taken seriously, don't you think? Then there is no war in Afghanistan, there is no Iraqi invasion, and there are no "torture" charges. You're right, war does suck, especially when it's unneccesary. But then again, we would've never had this interesting excange.

    BTW, it's OK to say balls. That's not PC is it? And for the 5% of you teabaggers making over $200,000 per year...YES, It sucks to be you! In '10 and '12, your 5-10 million votes could make a difference in overthrowing this facsist government. Wait a minute...did I just say "vote"?

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  10. Well although it's true, I don't read Chickaboomer because she's hot...she still could easily fit into Fox News on air personalities criteria....I mean Roger Ailes has made it perfectly clear - no one has to squint to watch Fox :)

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  11. Hey where is jimbotalk? is he okay?

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  12. You know something, I just thought of a real HUMANE way to "torture" somebody: Tight shoes. Handcuff amd shackle these terrorists and sympathizers and give them a size too small, in about an hour, they'll tell...just a thought.

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  13. Jimbotalk has been sleeping all day, so he can work all night.
    Yes, Marty, you are both extremely hot and extremely correct. We'll win because we're on the right side of history? My god, Obama is the living embodiment of naive! Where is it written that the jungle rewards scruples? I'm truly sorry that we live in a harsh world, but I'm not going to pretend that we don't because I can't bear to deal with reality. We play the cards we're dealt. I take no joy in the necessity of intense interrogation, nor do I think it should be our first resort. But it damned sure needs to be our last resort. I once had an on-air chat with some academic twit about the ticking time bomb scenario: The circumstance under which you know an atomic bomb is about to go off in a major american city and you know the terrorist in your custody knows when and where this will happen. Granted, this is an artificial construct, but it's simplicity cuts right to the moral dilemma. This professor was quite willing to let Pittsburgh go up in a mushroom cloud so he could go to sleep that night, smug in his alleged moral superiority. This is the mentality with which we're dealing, and it's one our commander in chief has bought into.
    I would do anything and everything to that terrorist, because the alternative is mass murder.

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  14. Jimbotalk,

    You make good points. However, since everybody seems to want to politicize this, here's the fundamental difference between Republicans (moderates, consevatives, neo-cons), and Democrats (moderates, progressives, and liberals), in my opinion: Republicans live in theory, and Democrats live in reality.

    To the best of my knowledge, nobody who has commented on this blog today has top secret clearance, works for the NSA, the Defense Department, or was there when these torture tactics took place. How do we know what were the best tactics to use? How do we know there weren't other options? You know how? We don't.

    Here's what we do know. We're the United States of America, and we don't use torture. I'm really getting sick of the Republican talking points, because this is NOT about politics, it's about right and wrong...period.

    It truly is amazing and sad how politics and politicians (and/or pundits), can whip people into a paranoid frenzy, and make them forget about common sense.

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  15. Nicely written, ChickieBoo.

    If there's a consensus that water boarding and some other forms of interrogation shouldn't be conducted by agents of the USA, then the order of President Obama has correctly halted the practice, and the Congress could write that ban into law if they so choose.

    We know what happened and why. Conducting investigations serves no useful purposes other than some temporary political ones. No one has been accused of acting beyond or contrary to the orders of President Bush, and I doubt anyone really wants to put career government operatives at permanent future risk for doing what they're told. President Bush and Vice President Cheney, of course, are both already exempt from any criminal prosecution for decisions made that were done so while executing the duties of their respective offices.

    Make the practices illegal or leave them to the discretion of the president. Either way, stop the silly political war as it only hurts the country over the long term.

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  16. Al,

    I agree with you for the most part, but how do investagations "hurt the country"? We are talking about violations of domestic and international law. Now granted, this administration is out of office, but when they were in, and could've been investigated, they had the political capital to put the ixnay on any investigation.

    IMO, this is basically saying, We broke the law...so what? Since we didn't get caught at the time we broke the law, it doesn't matter. What kind of message does that send?

    Now I know this is apples and oranges, but I wonder if George Will would put Mark McGwire, Jose Cancesco, or Barry Bonds into the Baseball Hall of Fame. They cheated. They didn't get caught. Hell, it wasn't even illegal back then. Just a thought.

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  17. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  18. Let me also add this. As I watched Lyn Cheney debate (condescend to) Nora O'Donnell today, she said that since we trained our soldiers in the SERE program to be waterboarded in the event of their capture, then there's nothing wrong with it.

    So if we train our soldiers to deal with something we know could happen to them in the event of their capture by an outlaw country or terrorist organization, how can we do the same thing and it's not illegal?

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  19. I'm not sure what Mrs. Cheney's point was, but probably she's thinking that if our soldiers can willingly have it done to themselves, just as cops have to undergo tasing, how torturous can it be? Eh, I suppose it's a somewhat valid argument.

    It would hurt our country because it puts American CIA, military, and other agents in impossible positions. What's legal now may not be legal tomorrow, but they can be judged for today on what's not legal tomorrow. We're also always better off when the world doesn't have a clear view inside our inner workings - makes it harder for them to execute successful attacks.

    Besides, from a purely legal perspective, President Bush sought and obtained advice, made his own decision and ruled the practices to be legal. That fact makes the whole thing legal until such time as he's overruled by the Congress, the matter is adjudicated beyond his ability to appeal, or his decision is changed by further executive order. There should be no prosecutable ex post facto rulings.

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  20. I believe it was Justice Potter Stewart who once opined that both the Congress and the President can read the constitution just as easily as can the Court. But, unlike other elected or unelected officials, only the President of the United States has the implied authority to render and act on his own constitutional opinions, until such time as he's overruled either by Act of Congress or by a ruling of the Supreme Court.

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  21. Missed you jimbotalk glad to see you were just catching zzzz..you know about wealth redistribution right? That working to make a living for yourself is so 2008 ;)

    Week In Review The Tortured Edition.

    http://youhavetobethistalltogoonthisride.blogspot.com/2009/04/tgif-circus-life-torture-slow-burn.html

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  22. Chiller, I'm quite willing to see illegal actions prosecuted. But not actions which some folks just don't happen to like. As for the backgrounds of posters: I served in Vietnam and had a way above top secret clearance from the NSA. Your turn.
    And as for Democrats living in reality? Really? Well let's personalize this. This ticking time bomb scenario goes as follows: You know that your wife and daughter will be raped, tortured, and murdered within 24 hours. You know that the person in your custody knows when and where this will happen. THERE ARE NO COPS TO CALL--just like in our "real" international world. So what do you do? Appeal to their better nature? I'll do that. Briefly. Just before I start peeling skin off very sensitive places. Real world my ass. The lefties would quite happily flush civilization down the toilet just to reenforce their own feelings of smug moral superiority.
    We're the USA. We don't use torture? No, we're the USA, and we'll try to avoid such practices, (which may or may not be torture)but we will, first and foremost, make sure that civilization survives. Because, when it's over, if we win, we'll revert to nicer practices. If they win, we'll reenter the dark ages.
    t-h-i-s i-s a w-a-r.
    I intend to fight it.

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  23. Very well put Jimbo. Though I was not around during WW2 I'm certain there were many things done that no one was particularly proud of. Win the war and your a hero, lose the war and you are a war criminal. I believe they call it the spoils of war. Immagine if Turman were afraid to use the two nukes to put an immediate stop to that war because of the current PC croud. I gues it would have better to lose another 200,000 people taking over Japan. The ends do occasionally justify the means.

    BTW a great conversation by all.

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  24. Well, I'm back. Woo-hoo! Been in Charleston, SC all week visiting my daughter and son-in-law. Stopped in Durham yesterday to play with my nearly two-year-old grandson.

    If we can't use nail guns on terrorists to keep them in those interrogation chairs, how about forcing them to choose between fucking Susan Boyle or Hillary Clinton.

    Believe me, they'll talk. Blab all...

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  25. Hillary. But I'd talk first.

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  26. I go for Hillary too. What better deterent?

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  27. Chiller, I'm quite willing to see illegal actions prosecuted. But not actions which some folks just don't happen to like. As for the backgrounds of posters: I served in Vietnam and had a way above top secret clearance from the NSA. Your turn.
    And as for Democrats living in reality? Really? Well let's personalize this. This ticking time bomb scenario goes as follows: You know that your wife and daughter will be raped, tortured, and murdered within 24 hours. You know that the person in your custody knows when and where this will happen. THERE ARE NO COPS TO CALL--just like in our "real" international world. So what do you do? Appeal to their better nature? I'll do that. Briefly. Just before I start peeling skin off very sensitive places. Real world my ass. The lefties would quite happily flush civilization down the toilet just to reenforce their own feelings of smug moral superiority.
    We're the USA. We don't use torture? No, we're the USA, and we'll try to avoid such practices, (which may or may not be torture)but we will, first and foremost, make sure that civilization survives. Because, when it's over, if we win, we'll revert to nicer practices. If they win, we'll reenter the dark ages.
    t-h-i-s i-s a w-a-r.
    I intend to fight it.

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  28. Jimbotalk has been sleeping all day, so he can work all night.
    Yes, Marty, you are both extremely hot and extremely correct. We'll win because we're on the right side of history? My god, Obama is the living embodiment of naive! Where is it written that the jungle rewards scruples? I'm truly sorry that we live in a harsh world, but I'm not going to pretend that we don't because I can't bear to deal with reality. We play the cards we're dealt. I take no joy in the necessity of intense interrogation, nor do I think it should be our first resort. But it damned sure needs to be our last resort. I once had an on-air chat with some academic twit about the ticking time bomb scenario: The circumstance under which you know an atomic bomb is about to go off in a major american city and you know the terrorist in your custody knows when and where this will happen. Granted, this is an artificial construct, but it's simplicity cuts right to the moral dilemma. This professor was quite willing to let Pittsburgh go up in a mushroom cloud so he could go to sleep that night, smug in his alleged moral superiority. This is the mentality with which we're dealing, and it's one our commander in chief has bought into.
    I would do anything and everything to that terrorist, because the alternative is mass murder.

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  29. Al,

    I agree with you for the most part, but how do investagations "hurt the country"? We are talking about violations of domestic and international law. Now granted, this administration is out of office, but when they were in, and could've been investigated, they had the political capital to put the ixnay on any investigation.

    IMO, this is basically saying, We broke the law...so what? Since we didn't get caught at the time we broke the law, it doesn't matter. What kind of message does that send?

    Now I know this is apples and oranges, but I wonder if George Will would put Mark McGwire, Jose Cancesco, or Barry Bonds into the Baseball Hall of Fame. They cheated. They didn't get caught. Hell, it wasn't even illegal back then. Just a thought.

    ReplyDelete